To quote Osho " Love is not relationship. Love is a state of being; it has nothing to do with anybody else. One is notIN love, one IS love. And of course when one is love, one is in love- but that is an outcome, a by-product, that is not the source. The source is that one IS love." My question therefore is; If one IS love, is one then One with Wu Wei?...e
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Colorado
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Re: Question time...
Mon, November 14, 2005 - 5:41 PMI don't understand your question. -
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Clarification
Mon, November 14, 2005 - 6:07 PMIf one IS love, is one then One with Wu Wei?
Well if you go about your daily stuff with the awareness of being loving, are you doing something or are you being nothing? Wu wei is the state of emptyness where you are not doing but being. In Taoist thought it is doing nothing, so if your being love and you are sharing it during your daily path are you doing anything or are you being something? I don't know that there is a correct answer, but it seemed like food for thought. I know it is conveluted but I'd love to hear some thoughts from others. As one who swings between being and doing I sometimes wonder; where is the state of wu wei? It's all fun, thanks and gratitude for considering this...e -
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Unsu...
Re: Clarification
Mon, November 14, 2005 - 6:56 PMTo quote Osho " Love is not relationship. Love is a state of being; it has nothing to do with anybody else. One is notIN love, one IS love. And of course when one is love, one is in love- but that is an outcome, a by-product, that is not the source. The source is that one IS love." My question therefore is; If one IS love, is one then One with Wu Wei?...e
I need to break this down a bit...bear with me ?
one = love.
love = a state of being
a state of being = wu wei
wu wei = to achieve a state of perfect equalibrium, or alignment with the Tao.
So far so good E ? -
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Re: Clarification
Mon, November 14, 2005 - 7:39 PMI am tending to think that WuWei is only one expression of Taoist practice/thought. My experience of a wuwei state is that it doesn't have much to do with Love (as I would define it) any more than it has to do with anything else.
i would tend to think about wuwei in terms like the first section of the Lao Tze on 'the Tao', where I would think of love more in terms of the second section on 'Te'.
Sandy, i humbly disagree with "a state of being = wu wei". One could just as easily say "a state of non-being = wu wei".
being and non-being create each other and all that rot...
peace,
C -
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Re: Clarification
Mon, November 14, 2005 - 7:48 PMI see what you are saying Christien, and I agree wu-wei doesn't have any thing to do with love or any thing other than being. That is what challenges my understanding. If you are being living love all the time than you could be in a state of wu-wei and not be doing anything but being and therefore you can be loving without crossing the principles of wu-wei...e -
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Unsu...
Re: Clarification
Mon, November 14, 2005 - 8:13 PMI was laying it out like that for clarity sake only. That is essentially, if I am reading it right, what Emptycloud stated prior to his question.
Referring back to the original post, what then would you say the state of being is ?
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Re: Clarification
Tue, November 15, 2005 - 6:55 AMLove everything and do nothing to change it(?) Possible answer . . . though I can see that being only in rare moments and not as a constant. Probably the only thing I could see Wu Wei being practiced on that would be increasing the ratios so that maybe when you get to the end of your string you can rate 100%.
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Re: Question time...
Mon, November 14, 2005 - 8:27 PMperhaps I should have worded my original question as; Can one be love as Osho recomends and still maintain the state of wu-wei (non-action)? Thank you all for the input...e -
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Re: Question time...
Mon, November 14, 2005 - 8:42 PM" Love is not relationship. Love is a state of being; it has nothing to do with anybody else. One is notIN love, one IS love. And of course when one is love, one is in love- but that is an outcome, a by-product, that is not the source. The source is that one IS love."
If one IS love and knows this, then one does not have to consciously think of thus, it just is. Put in these terms, it sounds to me that Osho's idea of love could very well be wu-wei. However, if one consciously emits or projects love, or looks for external love: that signifies an action.
Good thought, e. -
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Unsu...
Re: Question time...
Mon, November 14, 2005 - 9:09 PMIf one is love and knows it, then one is thinking it.
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Re: Question time...
Mon, November 14, 2005 - 9:30 PMyes true enough my dear, but if one is naturaly being it they are not doing it...e -
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Re: Question time...
Mon, November 14, 2005 - 9:49 PMsometimes it is and sometimes it is not. -
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Unsu...
Re: Question time...
Mon, November 14, 2005 - 9:54 PMhehehehe.
Bob is not a lawyer but he plays one on Tribe.
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Re: Question time...
Mon, November 14, 2005 - 9:57 PMwhat a tricky wicket. I believe wu-wei could be breathing because it acompanies being, but wu-wei could also be not breathing. It is all in the difference of naturally being and consciously doing...correct me if I'm wrong anyone...and thanks for the input all...e -
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Unsu...
Re: Question time...
Mon, November 14, 2005 - 9:59 PMIf one is not breathing, can one be wu wei ? -
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Unsu...
Re: Question time...
Mon, November 14, 2005 - 10:01 PMBack to the original topic. I don't think love is wu wei. Doesn't one reach a level of wu wei ? It either is or it isn't ? You either are or you are not ? Love ebbs and flows and varies in degrees. There are also many types of love. One is not typically either in or out of it. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Question time...
Mon, November 14, 2005 - 10:10 PMThat's just it the trick is to be love naturally. Then you are not doing you are being...e -
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Unsu...
Re: Question time...
Mon, November 14, 2005 - 10:17 PMNope.
One does not try or not try to breathe.
One does or does not try to love.
****DISCLAIMER****
I have no clue what I am talking about, so if I am completely off base, please feel free to let me know. -
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Re: Question time...
Tue, December 6, 2005 - 12:32 PMsandy - all your base are belong to us!
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Question time...
Tue, November 15, 2005 - 9:47 PMLove being wu-wei or not is the same as breath binge wu-wei or not. There are no constants, however, everything keeps changing.
If one is conciously breathing (i.e. a particular breathing exercise), that is an action: therefore not wu-wei. If one forgets the breath while breathing (i.e. Taoist meditation), that is non-action: wu-wei.
If one is trying to express love consciously, that is not wu-wei. If one forgets love and becomes love, that is wu-wei. -
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Re: Question time...
Tue, November 15, 2005 - 9:50 PMFirst line should read "... same as breath being wu-wei or not."
It should not read breath binge!! What a thought, huh!? -
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Re: Question time...
Wed, November 16, 2005 - 6:23 AMVery true Bob that it why I originally stated that by being love it could still be doing nothing hence wu- wei. Not doing love but being love as Osho stated. Not implying that it was wu-wei...e -
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The Yin of Tai Chi
Wed, November 16, 2005 - 11:24 AM'Lao Tzu emphasizes the impotance of love in the "Tao Te Ching" in verse 67 when he says, "I have three treasures which I hold and keep. The first is mercy..." By 'mercy' he means a deep feeling of compassionate love fr all things. The second and third treasures of Lao Tzu are economy and humility, but it is compassion that is listed first because whithout loving compassion there is no hope of oneness with others or of leading a life of Tai Chi. All the rest of Tai Chi (the movements, breathing, exercises, meditations, self defence, and such like) are merely playthings without the treasure of loving compassion.' Quoted from the Yin of Tai Chi Tao, Tai Chi & the Mysterious Female written by John Lash, (which I highly recommend)...e
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Re: Question time...
Thu, December 1, 2005 - 3:46 PMhi ec and others...
i think there might be a confusion in the thread....
wu wei isn't something one can be 'one' with...it's a concept, loosely translated, of effortless action.
so it's more attitudinal than existential, in my understanding.
that being said, if we can grasp how to integrate wu wei into our lives, it does change how we express love. -
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Re: Question time...
Thu, December 1, 2005 - 5:02 PMHi isabeau thanks for the input I kunnderstand what you are sying and agree with the concept as you stated it . However, it seems that becoming one with the concept of wu wei is in fact integrating it into our lives, grasped thusly it does therefore change how we express love. Not trying to be difficult, just exploring possibilities here. I did say it was a trickey wicket...e -
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Re: Question time...
Thu, December 1, 2005 - 7:31 PMyes, integrating wu wei into our lives is the challenge...
and it will change how we express love (or how we live love)
it's sorta like laissez faire, but yet oh so different...
best analogy i can give is from iaido:
we learn how to draw the sword, but in reality what we're challenged to do is to let the sword draw itself.
the sword is still drawn, but the result is different because the impetus is different...
yes, it's a tricky wicket...
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Re: Question time...
Tue, December 6, 2005 - 2:44 PMi'd say one is closer to being in a state of wu wei if they're in a state of loving...
provided that the love isn't attached to outcome (which tends to point to agape rather than eros, though that's not necessarily true, depends upon the person).
that being said, if one IS love, then one needs to be able to express all emotions honestly from a perspective of wanting the other person to be happy (and this may include being willing to be angry, to be cruel -- as in to be cruel to be kind, to be willing to let go...depends upon the subject of one's loving).
perhaps in this respect, approaching life from the perspective of wu wei, rather than love, might be more clear? -
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Re: Question time...
Mon, March 27, 2006 - 4:08 PMI think what you are referring to is compassionate wrath
this has an equal place to compassionate love but must be used I believe with more caution as it takes a lot of internal work to combine this within the true spirit of wu wei
by internal work I am going right back to the basics of breathing
the rest is decoration brought about by a knock on effect caused by breath
if you want a big book to fall over with an empty paper bag then fill it with air and place it underneathe the book
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